[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4586: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3765)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4588: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3765)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4589: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3765)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4590: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3765)
www.tolkien.rs • Pogledaj temu - O ponovnom rađanju Vilovnjaka

O ponovnom rađanju Vilovnjaka

Diskusija o postanku, istoriji i geografiji Srednje zemlje...

Moderatori: alcesta, Fingon, Aradela

 O ponovnom rađanju Vilovnjaka

Postod Namo*Mandos u Čet Dec 25, 2008 11:07 am

Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 1110
Pridružio se: Sub Nov 17, 2007 11:36 am
Lokacija: Dvori Mandosovi

 Re: Kelegorm, Karantir i Kurufin- zašto ih mrzite?

Postod Fingon u Čet Dec 25, 2008 12:11 pm

Istinita tvrdnja, ipak. Pogledaj malo po knjigama, chak i u Silmarilionu imash jednu rechenicu gde kaze da Finrod hoda sa svojim ocem pod drvecem u Valinoru. Da ne idemo dalje, po HoME-u, Statutu (ili kako god) Finvea i Mirijele i tako dalje... Uglavnom, u (ja mislim) Morgoth's Ring se objashnjava sve vezano za taj aspekt bitisanja Vilenjaka.

To da su u Mandos odlazili samo Noldori nije tachno, i ja to nisam ni rekao. Josh manje da on postoji samo zbog njih. Ali, ako izuzmesh izvestan broj morikvendskih varvara, u Prvom dobu su ginuli iskljuchivo Noldori. A neshto ne verujem da se neki Vanjar smorio od sveta i napustio svoje telo...
Let the Sunshine In!!


Nute Gunray, viceroy of the Trade Federation, stood trembling in an alcove, blood-tinged tears streaming down his green-mottled cheeks. "The war...," he whimpered. "The war is over—Lord Sidious promised—he promised we would be left in peace..."
"His transmission was garbled." The blade came up. "He promised you would be left in pieces.''
Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 2816
Pridružio se: Pet Avg 30, 2002 12:00 am
Lokacija: Hisilome

 Re: Kelegorm, Karantir i Kurufin- zašto ih mrzite?

Postod Namo*Mandos u Pet Dec 26, 2008 9:58 am

Nisam imao prilike, nazalost, da citam ni HoME, ni Morgoth's Ring, vec uzimam Silmarilion kao kanon, a tamo pise da je jedino Lutijena imala tu privilegiju da bira SZ ili Valinor, dok su svi ostali morali da ostanu u Mandosu sve do kraja sveta as we know It. Inace "ponovo se roditi" znaci sta? Nastaviti zivot u svom starom materijalnom obliku ili ponovo biti beba vilenjak? :roll: Drugo, Morikvendi u prvom dobru su tek kako ginuli od strane Morgotovih sluga.

P.S Bas lepo od moderatora sto nas ne upozoravaju sto malo skrecemo s teme, ali malo drugog strucnijeg misljenja ne bi bilo lose.
Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 1110
Pridružio se: Sub Nov 17, 2007 11:36 am
Lokacija: Dvori Mandosovi

 Re: Kelegorm, Karantir i Kurufin- zašto ih mrzite?

Postod Fingon u Pet Dec 26, 2008 10:29 am

Let the Sunshine In!!


Nute Gunray, viceroy of the Trade Federation, stood trembling in an alcove, blood-tinged tears streaming down his green-mottled cheeks. "The war...," he whimpered. "The war is over—Lord Sidious promised—he promised we would be left in peace..."
"His transmission was garbled." The blade came up. "He promised you would be left in pieces.''
Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 2816
Pridružio se: Pet Avg 30, 2002 12:00 am
Lokacija: Hisilome

 Re: Kelegorm, Karantir i Kurufin- zašto ih mrzite?

Postod alcesta u Pon Dec 29, 2008 4:13 pm

What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you dreamed? And what if, in your dream, you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if, when you awoke, you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then?
Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 8806
Pridružio se: Sub Mar 15, 2003 9:34 pm

 Re: Kelegorm, Karantir i Kurufin- zašto ih mrzite?

Postod Namo*Mandos u Ned Jan 04, 2009 11:32 am

Ih, a bas sam se plasio da ovo nije bilo cavrljanje radi cavrljanja vec da sam ozbiljan sagovornik na temu :)

Moracu vec jednom da procitam tu istoriju (MP mi je jos manje poznat), jer ovako vise ne vredi raspravljati "samo" na bazi Silm i GP.
Inace, ideja da se neko ponovo rodi, kako ste opisali, mi deluje uzbudljivo, ali nekako skroz NEtolkinovski, ako razumete.
Ovo oko Glorfindela... do sad sam verovao da su to dve razlicite licnosti sa istim imenom. Mislim... dva puta se roditi i dva puta umreti... :?
To sve malo menja celu pricu, jer tehnicki nije bas tolika steta i zalost kada neko od Erdalija izgubi zivot... a tolike tuge i kuknjave je bilo, da ga je tesko
i opevati.

re:P.S Nazalost, morao sam ranije od planiranog da odem iz BG, :cry: :cry:
Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 1110
Pridružio se: Sub Nov 17, 2007 11:36 am
Lokacija: Dvori Mandosovi

 Re: Kelegorm, Karantir i Kurufin- zašto ih mrzite?

Postod M'hejl u Ned Jan 04, 2009 3:43 pm

Kada Vilenjak umre, on se ponovo rodi, ali ne kao beba, vec se odmah dobije odraslo tijelo, kopiju svog ranijeg.
Domace,a nase!
Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 314
Pridružio se: Ned Apr 06, 2008 2:48 pm
Lokacija: Trostruka zemlja

 Re: Kelegorm, Karantir i Kurufin- zašto ih mrzite?

Postod Fingon u Ned Jan 04, 2009 5:38 pm

Pa kao se radja, a radja se, zar ne bi bio mali problemchic roditi odraslog vilenjaka? :P
Let the Sunshine In!!


Nute Gunray, viceroy of the Trade Federation, stood trembling in an alcove, blood-tinged tears streaming down his green-mottled cheeks. "The war...," he whimpered. "The war is over—Lord Sidious promised—he promised we would be left in peace..."
"His transmission was garbled." The blade came up. "He promised you would be left in pieces.''
Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 2816
Pridružio se: Pet Avg 30, 2002 12:00 am
Lokacija: Hisilome

 Re: Kelegorm, Karantir i Kurufin- zašto ih mrzite?

Postod M'hejl u Ned Jan 04, 2009 9:43 pm

Ne, niko ne rodi te vaskrsle Vilenjake, vec im Mandos odmah stvori novo,odraslo, tijelo, u koje udje njihova dusa. Jel sad jasno? :mrgreen:
Domace,a nase!
Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 314
Pridružio se: Ned Apr 06, 2008 2:48 pm
Lokacija: Trostruka zemlja

 Re: Kelegorm, Karantir i Kurufin- zašto ih mrzite?

Postod legolas3333 u Uto Jan 06, 2009 10:10 am

And it is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance else that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Iluvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen.
Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 240
Pridružio se: Pet Avg 22, 2003 5:36 am

 Re: Kelegorm, Karantir i Kurufin- zašto ih mrzite?

Postod M'hejl u Uto Jan 06, 2009 8:29 pm

Domace,a nase!
Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 314
Pridružio se: Ned Apr 06, 2008 2:48 pm
Lokacija: Trostruka zemlja

 Re: Kelegorm, Karantir i Kurufin- zašto ih mrzite?

Postod alcesta u Sre Jan 07, 2009 10:27 pm

Meni nije baš toliko jasno, odnosno davno sam čitala to, ali mi se čini da je u Morgotovom Prstenu Mirijel jedina koja se zaista vratila u svoje telo, ostatak sam shvatila kao da se opet rode i da im se dok rastu vraćaju stara sećanja pa čak i nekadašnji lik... E sad, mnogo zavisi na koju se verziju oslanjamo. Ako opet uzmem da čitam Athrabeth opet ću se rasplakati, pa ćemo to malo odložiti. :oops: Mislim da bi trebalo nastaviti na temi Morgoth's Ring, ili otvoriti novu o ponovnom rađanju Vilovnjaka. (Edit: u stvari, imam bolju ideju, najprostije je ovu odmah podeliti :D ).

Oduševljena sam što opet vidim legolasa3333. ::T:: Da nam što češće opet navraćaš kad ti prođe najveća frka!
Mandose, Morgotov Prsten je deo istorija Srednje Zemlje, ovde imaš opširnije kad budeš hteo da čitaš: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11640
I čekali smo te na skupu, stvarno šteta. :(
What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you dreamed? And what if, in your dream, you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if, when you awoke, you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then?
Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 8806
Pridružio se: Sub Mar 15, 2003 9:34 pm

 Re: Kelegorm, Karantir i Kurufin- zašto ih mrzite?

Postod legolas3333 u Sub Jan 10, 2009 9:36 am

And it is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance else that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Iluvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen.
Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 240
Pridružio se: Pet Avg 22, 2003 5:36 am

 Re: O ponovnom rađanju Vilovnjaka

Postod Namo*Mandos u Sub Jan 10, 2009 11:38 am

Kolko vidim tema je vec podeljena :)
Opet kazem, reinkarnacija i re-birth mi ne zvuci previse tolkinovski. Silmarilion onda gubi malo na smislu, jer smrt vilenjaka ne bi predstavljao bas toliku stetu, kao sto je to np. u slucaju Fingolfina za kojim je tolika tuga bila da je bilo tesko i opevati. Drugo, po kojoj zasluzi koji vilenja dobija ekskluzivno pravo da dobije novo/staro telo? Ne verujem da Mandos moze sam da odlucuje, pa ni to da mu veliki boss stalno govori ovaj moze ovaj ne moze, a ako vecina moze onda bi dvori ostali prazni.

Legolas3333:
Kristofer je nakon otkrica i analize drugih rukopisa shvatio da njegova kompilacija Silmariliona mozda i nije sasvim tacna...


Pa jos nije kasno da se izda novo dopunjeno i prepravljeno izdanje, uh narod bi ga terao na vesala :)
Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 1110
Pridružio se: Sub Nov 17, 2007 11:36 am
Lokacija: Dvori Mandosovi

 Re: O ponovnom rađanju Vilovnjaka

Postod alcesta u Pet Jan 16, 2009 7:51 pm

Pa u tome i jeste problem, kako odrediti šta od silne građe važi a šta ne. Ni hronologija nije od neke pomoći jer ko nam garantuje da se nije predomišljao...

Hm, da, nisam mislila na Berena i Lutjenu... doduše Beren nam ovde uopšte ne ulazi u račun jer pričamo o Vilovnjacima.

Inače stvarno osim Glorfindela i nemamo nekih imena konkretno, iako Tolkin naširoko piše o tome teorijski. Možda je u tome i stvar, što je reinkarnacija, da je tako nazovemo, bila u načelu moguća ali to ne znači da se često događala. Možda su fear Vilovnjaka koje Mandos nije imao razloga da zadržava više volele da ostanu kod njega, kao Mirijel. Ima u Statutu i o tome kako izgleda njihov boravak u Mandosovim dvoranama... nema, moraću da iskopam to i postavim citate, tu negde može biti odgovor.

Možda je retkost reinkarnacije i razlog što su ubijene tako oplakivali, a posebno Fingolfina.
What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you dreamed? And what if, in your dream, you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if, when you awoke, you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then?
Korisnikov avatar
Član
Član
 
Postovi: 8806
Pridružio se: Sub Mar 15, 2003 9:34 pm

Sledeća

Povratak na Silmarilion

Ko je OnLine

Korisnici koji su trenutno na forumu: Nema registrovanih korisnika i 1 gost

cron